I think that there are no coincidences and it’s no coincidence that today is the 22nd of February. This week in Georgia marks the week commemorating the occupation of 1921. In these days, we remember the young Georgian nurse, age-19 Maro Makashvili who died during the fights that were protecting the city of Tbilisi, we remember that the city of Tbilisi fell to the Russian invaders on the 25th of February, today is also the sad anniversary of the death of Archil Tatunashvili who was murdered in the occupied region of Tskhinvali to the hands of the occupiers, and it’s also in February that Kyiv fell in 1919 to the Bolshevik advance. February is a very heavy month for all the nations that live in the periphery of Russia and I want to use this opportunity to reiterate our solidarity and our understanding to what is happening today to the Ukrainian people because we know what this means probably more than many.
And now, it’s up to you for the questions.
[Helena Bedwell, Bloomberg News] Thank you for arranging this, Mme. President. First of all, considering what is happening today, regarding sanctions which are being imposed against Russia and will be probably more coming up, we want to know your position about them. Do you agree with them and is there anything Georgia can do to add to this? What mechanism does Georgia to have to make sure we are not next again?
That is unfortunately a good question and I’m not sure I have the answer.
On what is happening today and the sanctions, I will not differ with the sense that is that of the international community as a whole, especially that of the European community and of the American partner - that sanction is the answer when you are a democratic country. You do not answer to war by war, which we know is felt maybe by some as a weakness by democracies but that’s the way democracies work. Because there is a major difference between democracies and autocratic, dictatorial, authoritarian regimes: democracies are scared for the lives of their citizens and that’s something that then turns sometimes into weaknesses maybe. So the normal way to answering is of course sanctions.
I think the sanctions being imposed now are more symbolic than anything else because I’m not sure there were many American investors ready to invest in Donetsk and Luhansk these days. But it’s a signal, a signal of things to come and I think that this time, probably, sanctions are going to be of a different kind than what we’ve seen before and if there’s a lesson to be learned from the past, from 2008 in the case of Georgia, 2014 in the case of Ukraine once already, it is that probably our Western partners did not use all the possibility they had at that time and the cost to Russia was not such to deter it from doing it again. So I think today the challenge is exactly that. Without going into major escalation (because I think nobody wants war, neither us nor anybody in Europe or clearly in the US), without war, what is that the united West can do to make Russia feel the moral, political, financial costs it wouldn’t want to carry anymore.
[Bedwell] What about mechanisms?
Mechanisms are sanctions, it’s very clear, and the whole range of sanctions that can provide some form of result.
I’ve worked before previously as you know on the mechanism of sanctions towards Iran and it did work at the time. We cannot compare the situations, comparison is not reason, but there is an experience of Western countries about sanctions that can be put to use. The decision that has been taken by Germany, that many thought Germany would not take, is a very important one, again in symbolic meters, and many of the things we’re seeing now are very important symbolically.
[Nino Gelashvili, Radio Tavisupleba]: Should Georgia join the sanctioning countries? It may have more symbolic value but still.
We don’t know what will be the range of sanctions, I cannot answer for the government and certainly it’s an issue for the government.
We have to share solidarity. On how it has to be done and what will be asked of Georgia, we are a country that is already paying its share. We have two occupied regions and we have a responsibility toward this situation and toward our citizens that live on the occupation line. We know what Russia can do so I think we need to balance the need to be in full solidarity with our partners and the need to be responsible toward our own security and population. So it’s a question to be discussed with our partners, I cannot certainly give an answer by myself today.
[Nino Dalakishvili, Voice of America]: Madam President, to what extent does Georgia use its chance to address the issue of Ukraine at the international level? If you have had any communication on this issue with the Prime Minister and Alian I wonder if you can share with us something from this communication that can be said now. We also wonder if you think that after the crisis in the region, Ukraine, if Ukraine is more attached to the West, where Georgia should be, in this case if we say we will see now the alliance, which will be Ukraine, Poland, Britain. Where do you see Georgia in such a case?
To answer the first part of the question, whether we should tie ourselves to Ukraine: we are tied. As you know, I received last summer the Associated Trio leaders at the Petra Summit and the three of us – Georgia, Moldova, and Ukraine – are very closely and clearly linked to each other in our relation to the European Union. Same for our path to NATO, which links these countries that are probably those that are the closest to the Open-Door Policy. When we are talking about the crisis, we are linked because everybody is recalling Georgia’s experience. Everybody knows that the scenario, although a bit different, is a scenario that Russia has been using and is repeating, and we are mentioned all the times.
We ourselves have mentioned the need, and I did that myself in different occasions, that nothing be decided on Georgia without Georgia being fully informed and associated or consulted or something else. Because in the pretentions that Russia presented during the phase of negotiations, there are certainly things that could concern Georgia because we are linked to Ukraine and so we have to be involved. I will not hide to you that I’ve also communicated not only with the Polish President, but also with the French President during the negotiations and made it very clear that we should not be forgotten, although the current crisis clearly concerns Ukraine and there cannot be mixing up of different situations. But when it comes to thinking about the future, the way out of the crisis, it’s clear that Georgia has to be in the mind of everyone and we have to be clear about what are the discussions that could concern us.
[Dalakishvili] And what about your communication with the Prime Minister?
I don’t think that I have to discuss the internal communication of the different authorities that is not relevant to the situation.
I’ve made my position very clear from the very beginning and even before the crisis began in Ukraine, with the necessity to restore our relations. You know we didn’t have an ambassador in Ukraine for some time and I was the one in fact last year during my Address to Parliament to ask for the restoration of the diplomatic relations directly and sending back our ambassador because I think our two countries have historical ties, very similar issues and problems, and future. So I think that we need to remain very close and that is a principle I’ve held at all stages of this process.
[Rayhan Demytrie, BBC News]: First, what is your position on the Ukraine resolution that was adopted by the Georgian Parliament? Do you agree with the Georgian government’s pragmatic approach to relations with Russia? Second, you just mentioned how similar the scenario is with Ukraine, as the President of Georgia, how does it make you feel to see the same scenario in Ukraine?
On the first issue, I will say that as the President of Georgia, I do not have to discuss a resolution that has been taken by Parliament, or the approach that is taken by the Government. I have presented and I follow my principles when representing Georgia’s position as a State and I think I’ve made them very clear.
Whether I agree with a pragmatic approach – this is very interesting question: I cannot disagree with a pragmatic approach because of what I said, that we have two of our territories that are occupied, we have populations that are suffering, we have our citizens in Abkhazia and Tskhinvali that are not allowed access to the Georgian language, our citizens that are not allowed access to the Abkhazian language, the Russification policy is going on in a very active way, we see two huge military bases on both territories and Russia has started some steps that are going toward annexation. So I think that the Government has to be responsible. I don’t think it that it warrants not talking about one’s principles, that is the balance and of course not an easy balance.
On the second question: first of all, it’s a sense of deja-vu, even if there are differences in the scenario. I think that the Russia of 2008 was not exactly the same as the Russia of 2022 and one of the elements is that here, Russia is moving directly to the annexation even without the pretext of war, which means we’re seeing a step higher, and the declaration of President Putin yesterday on television I think is something that everyone has to worry about. It’s not only Georgia that is feeling that way, it’s all of Europe and it’s important that all of Europe, and I agree with President Zelenskyy on that, sees that at stake here is not only Georgia or Ukraine, but all of Europe, the security of Europe. We are on the same boat.
[Nino Gelashvili, Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty Georgian service]: You’ve said that when the time comes, Georgia should be on everybody’s mind…
It is already.
[Gelashvili]: What should be done for Georgia to be on everybody’s mind when it comes to NATO and EU integration, what obstacles do you see on the way toward Euro-Atlantic integration, what are the tasks before the Madrid Summit, what do you consider as your personal tasks in the process? And do you see a need for a National Security Council session to be held with your representative. As far as I know, no session has been held since December.
On the road to European and Euro-Atlantic integration, I think the main decision rests on the shoulders of our partners. And that is very clear today.
You can always find many reasons and I’m sure we are not perfect and we do not meet all the necessary baselines to be admitted to one or to the other or to both, but today, the question does not stand like that. Today, the question is, whether we continue. I think Ukraine has made that very clear, the process of stop-and-go is the most detrimental.
I had been in a different life and in a different position where we were discussing the Big Bang and the integration of the Baltic States. At that time, the main thing was to avoid the stop-and-go (again at that time it was a different Russia and different circumstances) but the linear approach of step-by-step progress is one that is less confrontational and one that provides the best results. So I think that there, I would not lay the responsibility on which government has done what and has succeeded to be an ideal candidate or not: it’s a decision for the partners, whether they’re ready to go that way. And I think my answer would be that at least, and that’s something that I’ve passed on, the answer to what’s happening in Europe today is a more united Europe, a more determined Europe, more Europe in Ukraine, more Europe in Georgia, more Europe in Moldova, more Europe in the Black Sea: that is the immediate answer, the rest is a question that I cannot decide for them.
[Gelashvili] What about your personal task as the President, do you intervene whenever you find it necessary, like the Polish President’s transit visit to Georgia, how do you see your role, at least until Madrid?
Doing everything I can, which I’ve been doing until now, to support the path of Georgia. I was the one to organize the Petra Summit for the EU and anywhere I can use my position as the President of this country I represent, and not lead the foreign policy as you know per the Constitution, our path that is in the Constitution. I have a duty to represent that. For your question on the Security Council, it’s not a decision for me to take; it’s an internal governmental decision.
[Davit Kachkachishvili, Anadolu Agency]: Mme. President, I want to talk about the problem of Georgia’s territorial integrity. What is your vision, how do you see a solution when we see the development in the region, in Ukraine for instance. How would you think about the recovery of territorial integrity?
I’m certain on two things. First, that we cannot solve this problem with force, we all know this. And we have taken that commitment voluntarily not to resolve to the use of force to the conflicts. So, the only other alternative that is known on the surface of the earth is diplomacy. Unfortunately, we have on the other side, the government of Russia that does not seem to be prone to diplomacy and we are seeing what is happening today. All the major powers were involved in this diplomatic frenzy and did not succeed to get Russia around the table, a long table sometimes, to really get into the discussion. So, I am modestly thinking that Georgia today does not have the means to bring Russia to real dialogue and to de-escalation. In our case too, de-escalation is something that goes together with any form of serious dialogue, if anybody wants a serious dialogue. De-escalation has to start on the occupation line, all these incidents that are happening every day: hostage-taking, borderization, Russification, all of that, we have to see signs of the de-escalation, to see that there is a meaning to trying a dialogue and I would be ready any time if I see the signs. Unfortunately, I do not see the signs today and I think that looking towards Ukraine and what’s happening I do not see the signs there either. But again, if there were signs, I would take personally all the risks for dialogue because I think we have to try all the ways. I think that’s what President Zelenskyy has been doing, has been trying very courageously.
[Irakli Metreveli, AFP]: Let me quote from your opinion piece back from October 2009, published by Radio Liberty. You said, “Leaders of both Russia and Georgia are at fault. The Russians for provoking rather than avoiding the armed conflict and then for overreacting and the Georgian leader for launching the disastrous military attack. Georgian President Saakashvili is personally responsible to his people for having launched the military aggression against Tskhinvali and thereby, giving Russia a free hand to enter, occupy and formally recognize the independence of breakaway regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.” So, my question is do you still subscribe to those words now when we have seen Putin does not actually need casus belli to invade, annex and dismember the sovereign country?
First of all, you’re quoting parts of the things that I’ve said, it’s a full quote for one, but I have said many times and its’s a total discussion that is endless. There are two different things. One is, who is responsible for the war and I have said that very clearly since 1801 the four wars between Russia and Georgia, there were all Russia’s responsibility in the sense that Russia is the one that has come on territory, it’s not Georgia that has passed on the territory of Russia. And so every conflict is the responsibility of Russia and that’s what we are seeing today.
My discussion concerned something else that is not the place here. It concerned what is it that the authorities have to do when we know the provocation is starting and we know what the Americans were saying, I was there when the Americans were coming and saying “do not walk into the provocations.” I think that the lesson learned - and that is a very interesting part - is that the one we have seen Zelenskyy applying. He has been very, very careful not to walk into the provocation.
What I am saying is that - and what I am saying is a political discussion that I don’t think has a place here - the political discussion is whether the Government should try to avoid all the provocations at the maximum without knowing whether it will be successful or not successful. I think that one should try everything and that was the sense of my discussion. And I think that it has been very interesting to watch. There is another thing Zelenskyy has done, if we want to go into history though I don’t think it’s much appropriate, which is the mobilization of the international community fully before things happened. And in the case of Georgia, the UN Security Council was called by the Russians before it was called by the Georgians.
[Bedwell]: Just to what Irakli just said, do you think if Zelenskyy would respond just like you say, Georgia overreacted, do you think he would get the same answer?
I don’t know, I am not in the process of making hypothesis and I don’t think it’s my role here. I think that he has tried everything he could but yes, Russia’s reaction was even more because here, without anything directly, we have a process of recognition, and even more than that, what I am hearing today is this threat that they consider that recognized regions also include the territories that have been taken back by Ukraine during this long conflict so that’ a major concern also.
[Mikhail Vignanski, EFE]: Dear Mme. President, first of all, I want to inform that you used your, very timely, Twitter statement and thanks to your proactive service which works well, as always. Concerning my question, can you predict more western attention to Black Sea region after the situation on Ukraine and if yes, what we can see here: more trainings, more investments?
First of all, I do not like predictions because I don’t think it’s my role to predict. I’m concerned by the fact that, clearly, the Black Sea is one of the places where tensions could grow because we have all the elements there of tension. And at the same time, this is probably the place where we need the least tensions and more cooperation. Because that’s the area in which we know that all the major infrastructural projects of the EU and everything that has in the future to link the European Union and our regions – the Caucasus and also Ukraine. All the 3 Seas projects, in which Ukraine is involved and in which we would like to get an open door, are extremely important whether it’s transit, whether it’s energy, whether it’s communications, and depend on the peaceful and non-confrontational Black Sea. If I know that, Russia knows it too. We have to be concerned but we have to do everything possible to avoid confrontation in the Black Sea.
